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1871          Mr. HANSBROUGH. I desire to ask the Senator from Illinois in charge of the 
          bill if he does not think it would be more appropriate to place the charge of the 
          public lands in Hawaii under the Secretary of the Interior, rather than the 
          Secretary of Agriculture?

Mr. CULLOM. One or two Senators have made inquiries regarding the 
provisions of the bill, but I will say to the Senator there was an understanding 
that the bill should only be read this afternoon and the amendments of the 
committee acted upon. I should prefer to defer any explanation of the 
provisions of the bill until the reading shall have been completed and the 
Senate is more fully attended than it is at the present time.

Mr. HANSBKOUGH. I just came into the Chamber, and -was not aware that 
such an arrangement had been made.
The reading of the bill was resumed. The next amendment of the Committee 
on Foreign Relations was, in section 81, page 36, line 18, after the word 
"office," to strike out "during good behavior" and insert "for a term of nine years;" so as to read:

All such officers shall hold office for four years and until their successors are 
appointed and qualified, unless sooner removed, except the chief justice and 
justices of the supreme court, who shall hold office for a term of nine years, and 
the judges of the circuit courts, whose terms of office shall be six years, and except 
the commissioners of public instruction and the members of said boards, whose 
terms of office shall be as provided by the laws of the Territory of Hawaii.

Mr. PLATT of Connecticut. I ask that the amendment may be passed over. 
This whole section proposes to introduce into a Territory which we are creating 
an entirely new system of appointment of judges and some other officers.

Mr. CULLOM. This is only the reading of the section. It is not being 
adopted.

Mr. PLATT of Connecticut. I want this amendment to be passed over, 
because I do not want it even adopted now.

Mr. CULLOM.    Very well.

Mr. JONES of Arkansas.   What page is it?

Mr. CULLOM.   Page 36.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore.   Page 30, line 18.
Mr. PLATT of Connecticut. Section 81, to which I refer, commences on page 
35.
Mr. President, we are giving to this new Territory of ours powers and 
privileges which we have given to no other Territory that has ever been 
organized in the United States.
In every Territory that has been organized we have reserved to the President, 
by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, the appointment of judicial 
officers-judges, marshals, and other officers of that character. Here we 
commit it entirely to the governor of the Territory. If this section passes, 
neither the President of the United States nor the Senate can have anything to 
say about who shall be judges in that Territory.
Now, one single thing more. We have provided that the judges of all our 
legislative courts should have a tenure of office of four years only. This bill not 
only takes entirely away from the President and the Senate the power of 
appointment of the chief justice and justices of the supreme court, but it 
continues in office by legislation the chief justice and justices of the supreme 
court for a term of nine years. We never had a Territory of the United States 
where judges had a tenure of office longer than four years. I merely speak of it 
now. I should like this amendment to be passed over. I do not want to go into 
the matter at length at this time.

Mr. CULLOM. Mr. President, I merely wish to say a word, inasmuch as the 
Senator from Connecticut is disposed to discuss the bill as we go along, which I 
have tried to avoid as we are only having it read now.
The commission which was sent to Hawaii found there a very good civil 
government. Of course there were many things not entirely satisfactory and 
which we propose to change, but the commission desired to recognize the 
situation as it was and, so far as we could, consistently with the interests of the 
United States, allow conditions to remain there that were not entirely out of 
harmony with the spirit of the Government of the United States at home. We 
found a supreme court there, not to administer United States statutes, but to 
administer the laws of the Territory, which  is preserved in the bill and which is 
in harmony, as we thought, with the general principles and interests of the 
Government of the United States as well as of that Territory.
The plan of the bill is to retain the legislature, the system of local courts, 
purely to administer Territorial statutes, and to provide a United States judge to 
administer the United States laws. The .commission believe that the wisest 
course for us to pursue is to retain in force the laws, so far as they are consistent 
with our ideas of government, and the courts to administer them; and we 
found there a life tenure of judicial officers. The Committee on Foreign 
Relations of the Senate thought perhaps that that was not exactly the right 
thing to do, and so we limit the terms of the judges of the supreme court to nine 
years and of the circuit judges of that Territory to six years.
We believe there is no occasion for changing everything there simply because 
we can and because in the Territories here In our own country we have United 
States judges to administer Territorial statutes as well as United States statutes. 
We believe it is wise to allow 
the judges of the local courts there to have entire control and jurisdiction 
over the local statutes of the Territory and a United States judge to 
administer the United States laws. I do not know whether in any of our States 
there is a life tenure. I do not remember any; but there are in different States 
different laws controlling the terms and qualifications of the officers. I believe 
myself that while it is a little different from what we have in New Mexico or 
Arizona, yet it is more beneficial to recognize the situation there as nearly as 
we can rather than tear up the whole system of their local government and 
create it anew.
As the Senator from Connecticut knows, the United States judges here, 
who are appointed to go to the Territories, in performing their duties there 
administer the local laws of the Territories as well as the United States 
statutes generally. But as to Hawaii, it seemed to the commission that we 
ought to adopt the plan they have there, supplementing it with a provision 
for a United States judge. The plan is to constitute the different islands into a 
Territory and have a judge administer United States laws, pure and simple, 
and officers to execute and administer them. That is all I want to say now. I 
did not care to discuss the matter at all.

Mr. FORAKER. Would it not be better to allow the amendment to be 
passed over, as the Senator from Connecticut suggested, until we can take 
up together all the points that are objected to. We may in that way be able to 
conclude the reading of the bill this afternoon.

Mr. CULLOM. The Senator from Connecticut insisted upon discussing it, 
and I was trying to answer him a little.

Mr. FORAKER. I understood the Senator from Connecticut to say that he 
did not care to discuss the matter now. He merely wanted to call attention to 
the point and to have the amendment passed over.

Mr. CULLOM.   He has been discussing it.

Mr. PLATT of Connecticut. I was giving reasons why I thought the 
amendment should be passed over.

Mr. FORAKER.   That was all.

Mr. PLATT of Connecticut. If the Senator from Illinois thought I was 
really discussing the matter, I will try to enlighten him hereafter as to why I 
think no such provision as he has in section 81 should be adopted.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Shall the amendment be passed over?

Mr. CULLOM. I have no objection to its being passed over, and had not in 
the first place.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment will be passed over.
The reading of the bill was resumed. The next amendment was, in section 85, 
page 39, line 1, after the word "have," to strike out the words "either directly or through such relative;" so as to make the section read:

SEC. 85. That no person shall sit as a judge or juror in any case in which his 
relative by affinity or by consanguinity within the third degree is Interested, either 
as a plaintiff or defendant, or in the issue of which the said judge or juror may have 
any pecuniary interest. No judge shall sit on an appeal or new trial in any case In 
which he may have given a previous judgment.
The amendment was agree* to.

The next amendment was, in section 94, page 43, line 11, after the word 
"dollars," to insert "United States district judge, $5,000;" and in line 18, 
after the word "dollars," to insert "annually;" so as to make the section read:
SEC. 94. That the following officers shall receive the following annual sal-
aries, to be paid by the United States: The governor, $5,000; the secretary of 
the Territory, $3,000: United States district judge, $5,001); the United States 
marshal, $2,000; the United States district attorney, $2,000. And the governor 
shall receive annually, in addition to his salary, the sum of $500 for stationery, 
postage, and incidentals; also his traveling expenses while absent from the 
capital on official business, and the sum of $2,001) annually for his private secretary.
The amendment was agreed to.

The next amendment was, in the last paragraph of section 98, page 45, line 10, 
after the word " the," to strike out " governor " and insert "attorney-general;" 
inline 11, after the word "Hawaii," to strike out "may" and insert "shall;" in line 
13, after the word " in," to strike out "a" and insert "such;" and in the same line, 
before the word "provided," to insert "as may be;" so as to make the paragraph read:
That if such fishing right be established, the attorney-general of the Territory of Hawaii shall proceed, in such manner as may be provided by law for the 
condemnation of property for public use, to condemn such private "right of fishing" 
to the use of the citizens of the United States upon making just compensation, 
which compensation, when lawfully ascertained, shall be paid out of any money in 
the Treasury of the Territory of Hawaii not otherwise appropriated.
The amendment was agreed to.
The reading of the bill was concluded.

Mr. CULLOM. I desire, in behalf of the committee, to move to strike out 
sections 104 and 105 and to insert in lieu of those sections:
SEC. 104 That this act shall take effect sixty days on and after the date of the 
approval thereof.
The adoption of this amendment I will state is very important.

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