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1930

Mr. CULLOM.   I know it is.

Mr. VEST. Suppose we were to permit the Treasurer of the United States, or 
even the Secretary of the Treasury, when Congress had adjourned, and for good 
reasons to itself had not made an appropriation, to take the money in hand 
himself, and with the advice of the President go on and expend the tax money 
of the people on the basis of a year which was gone, and when certain 
circumstances prevailed and Congress had in its discretion made 
appropriations. Here is a case where the legislature fails or re-fuses to 
appropriate. The governor then calls an extra session. He does not know 
whether that extra session is about to make appropriations or not. And, without 
waiting for that legislature to act at all, the treasurer comes to the governor and 
says, "The legislature adjourned without making an appropriation, and I want 
to expend the money that is in the treasury." There is no case of exhaustion 
about it. He goes on and expends what is in the treasury. The governor says, 
"All right." The legislature meets and again refuses to appropriate. It may 
think that the condition of affairs does not justify an appropriation, and the 
treasurer in the meantime has expended the money.

Mr. FORAKER. Now, conceding that all that the Senator from Missouri 
suggests would occur in the contingency he sup-poses, would not that be better 
than a suspension of government? Would not the latter be the absolute 
consequence otherwise?

Mr. VEST. If the Senator will permit me, that thing has occurred frequently 
in Congress and in State legislatures, and there has been no suspension of 
government. If the government has credit and is a stable government, there is 
no trouble about existing upon credit or obtaining supplies upon credit. That 
occurs every year.

Mr. FORAKER. I make this inquiry because when this matter was considered 
in committee the same ideas occurred to me that have been expressed by the 
Senator from Missouri; but I thought it was better to incorporate this provision 
than to have the con-sequences which would inevitably result if there were not 
some way to meet the necessary expenses of the government. It did not seem to 
me a very dangerous provision, because it relates only to the current expenses of 
government.

Mr. VEST. I do not think it would stop the government. The government can 
always get money enough to pay.

Mr. FORAKER. It does not cover appropriations that may be made for 
unusual necessities or for improvements, but only the necessary current 
expenses of the government.

Mr. CULLOM.   The provision reads:
That in case of failure of the legislature to pass appropriation bills providing 
for payments of the necessary current expenses of carrying on the gov-
ernment and meeting its legal obligations as the same are provided for by the 
then existing laws, the governor shall, upon the adjournment of the leg-
islature, call it In extra session for the consideration of appropriation bills, 
and until the legislature shall hare acted the treasurer may, with the advice of 
the governor, make such payments, for which purpose the sums appropriated 
in the last appropriation bill shall be deemed to have been reappropriated.
The treasurer will have no right to go outside of the lines specified and 
spend the money for a purpose for which an appropriation has not heretofore 
been made, so that if the provision is allowable at all, which I have always 
doubted a little, it is pretty well guarded, I think, so that there is no probable 
danger in al-lowing it to be done.

Mr. VEST. Mr. President, one objection to it, if the Senator will permit me, 
is that the money is to be expended by the treasurer in this emergency upon the 
basis of a former appropriation and not in view of the necessities of the 
government at the time the money is to be expended.
But the serious objection to it is that yon take the power of appropriation away 
from the legislative department, where it ought always to rest, and put it into 
the hands of one man who is advised, not directed even, by another. It is 
hardly necessary to say that this power of appropriation and taxation has 
convulsed the civilized nations of the world from time to time. England was 
drenched in blood in 1688 over this very question of the power of the King in a 
monarchy to take the tax money of the people and spend it without the 
consent of Parliament. But I do not want to go into that.
Here is an entire departure from the American system of appropriations. 
Instead of the legislature fixing the amount to be expended, and whether 
anything shall be expended or not, if they in their legislative discretion refuse to 
appropriate and adjourn, here is a treasurer who may be the tool of the 
governor, and the governor himself not a very reliable person-it might happen, 
of course-and they take this extraordinary power in their own hands and on the 
basis of a former year exhaust the treasury.
My friend the Senator from Alabama says it is the same power that we 
exercise. I do not see that we exercise any such power. Has the Secretary of the 
Treasury ever had it or has the President ever had it? We have a provision that 
no money shall be taken out of the Treasury except by an act of Congress-not 
a dollar- and it is one of the wisest provisions we could possibly have.

Mr. MORGAN. What I referred to, if the Senator will allow me, is the fact 
that we have a number of permanent appropriations.

Mr. VEST.   There is no doubt about that.

Mr. MORGAN. And whether Congress meets or does not meet, those 
appropriations stand and the Secretary of the Treasury can pay the money out 
on those appropriations, although they are not renewed.

Mr. VEST.   But that is where Congress has acted.

Mr. MORGAN.   That is all this provides for.

Mr. VEST. That is where Congress has acted. Here there has been no such 
action.

Mr. MORGAN. Oh, yes; the legislature has acted and fixed the basis of 
appropriations.

Mr. VEST. But for a different year, and have made no appropriation that year, 
and have adjourned.

Mr. MORGAN. It makes no difference what year it is for. It is a permanent 
appropriation.

Mr. VEST.   I do not so understand it.

Mr. SPOONER.   Mr. President--

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from Illinois yield to the 
Senator from Wisconsin?

Mr. CULLOM.   Certainly.

Mr. MORGAN. I hope the Senator from Illinois will conclude his remarks this 
morning. I want to see them in the RECORD.

Mr. CULLOM. I want to make only one more remark about the situation.

Mr. TILLMAN. Please pardon me once more. Does the pro-vision giving the 
governor and the treasurer the power to expend money as though it had been 
reappropriated carry with it the power to relevy taxes? We know that the power to 
appropriate money is limited by the amount of money in the treasury, and if 
there is no more there, this provision can do no harm; but I wish to know 
whether this gives the autocratic government by one man the power of levying 
taxes as well as appropriating money?

Mr. CULLOM. There is no power to levy extra taxes. So the Senator is safe 
on that.

Mr. TILLMAN. The treasurer can go no further than the bottom of the strong 
box?

Mr. CULLOM. Mr. President, the condition of affairs now in Hawaii is most 
deplorable. Unfortunately for those people, they are now being seriously 
afflicted and scourged by what is known as the bubonic plague. It broke out 
there some time ago in what was called Chinatown, and the author! ties and people 
of the islands have been compelled to destroy some 30 acres of the city. The 
portion destroyed was thickly settled by Chinese, Japanese, and possibly some 
other nationalities. The whole tract was burnt, not perhaps entirely by order of 
the authorities, but in attempting to burn a portion of it the fire got beyond 
their control and the whole 30 acres were swept away. The result is that some 
8,000 people are now in quarantine, their property, even much of their clothing, 
being destroyed. The people of the city of Honolulu are taking care of them 
largely at their own personal expense, giving up their various avocations of 
business to that work of humanity.

I understand as a matter of fact that a business man does not open his 
business door until he has spent two or three hours trying to do something for 
these unfortunate people, and they close their business houses at 3 o'clock and 
resume the work of caring for the unfortunate sufferers.
That government is appealing to the United States for action upon this bill, 
so that they may have as quickly as possible some legal authority for the 
expenditure of money and for putting the city in such condition as to prevent 
the further spread or breaking out of that terrible disease. I believe it is true that 
the President of the United States has authorized the president of the republic, 

Mr. Dole, to use such funds belonging to the Territory or the re-public as may be 
necessary for the immediate care and protection of those suffering people and 
for the construction of temporary quarters for their use.
And also the President has authorized the president of the re-public to 
appoint a commission to investigate and allow such amounts as those 
unfortunate people have suffered from the necessary destruction of their property. 
All this, however, is embarrassing to the Administration, embarrassing to the 
authorities of the islands, and call for action by this Government, so that their 
affairs may be conducted strictly according to law, and that they may know 
what their rights are in the premises.
I hope, therefore, Mr. President and Senators, that there may not be 
unnecessary delay in the passage of this bill. Humanity calls for immediate 
action, and I am sure that the history of the Senate and of Congress has shown 
their willingness to answer promptly such appeals.

Mr. PLATT of Connecticut. Mr. President, there is one point to which the 
Senator from Illinois failed to advert in his explanation of the bill which I wish 
he would think of over night. I will premise what I have to say about it by 
stating that I am as anxious to have a bill passed establishing a civil 
government for the Territory of Hawaii as he is, I think.

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