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                             1990
the Senator will allow me, so that I think it will meet all his objections.   It will then 
read:
That the legislature at its first regular session shall create counties, and 
may, from time to time, create town and city municipalities within the Ter-
ritory of Hawaii and provide for the government thereof.
Mr. CULLOM. I myself have no objection to that. I think it is tolerably important 
that the people of the island of Hawaii, on which the town of Hilo is located, shall 
have some records there, BO that they will not be required to go to the island of Oahu 
or to the city of Honolulu, taking a day by water, in order to record deeds or 
transact such business as the people of every county have to transact I have no 
objection to the amendment as the Senator now proposes it.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Secretary will state the amendment of the 
Senator from Wyoming as proposed to be modified.
The SECRETARY. In section 56, page 23, line 10, after the word "legislature,"it is 
proposed to strike out "may "and insert "at its first regular session shall,"and 
before the word "town,"in line 11, to insert"may from time to time;"so that if 
amended the section will read:
SEC. 56. That the legislature at its first regular session shall create counties, 
and may, from time to time, create town and city municipalities within the 
Territory of Hawaii and provide for the government thereof.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on agreeing to the amendment of 
the Senator from Wyoming as modified.
The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. I should like to ask if any amendment was offered or 
adopted or rejected yesterday to section 75. The matter was up for discussion, but 
I think it was not deter-mined.
Mr. CULLOM.   There has been no amendment to that section.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair is informed that no amendment was 
made to that section.
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. I desire to offer an amendment to section 75.
I regret, Mr. President, that I feel compelled to propose this amendment. I 
believe it is right. It is with no desire to interfere with the passage of the bill or the 
object of the committee. I think it will cover two sections. The section provides 
that au amount shall be appropriated to allow the Secretary of Agriculture to 
investigate the laws of Hawaii relating to public lands, agriculture, and forestry. 
Now, so far as agriculture and forestry are concerned, I think it quite proper that the 
Secretary of Agriculture should have that investigation under his charge, but so far as 
the laws relating to the public lands are concerned, which is going to be the great 
question in that country, a question which is going to be harder to solve than the 
labor question, they ought to be investigated by the department of the Government 
which is especially charged with the administration of the land laws. It seems to 
me that the only proper Way is for the investigation, if any, into the land laws of 
Hawaii to be made under the Land Department of our Government. This section, 
perhaps, might be divided, so that two investigations should be had.
What I want is that the lands of Hawaii, which constitute and will constitute the 
greatest problem over there, will be, if they are to be investigated, should be 
investigated under the department of Government which should have and will have 
the administration of those laws afterwards and has in every other Territory.
Mr. CULLOM. I did not quite understand the amendment of the Senator from 
Wyoming. If the Senator simply proposes for the present that the Secretary of the 
Interior instead of the Secretary of Agriculture shall make the investigation, and 
stops there, I have no objection to his amendment.
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming.   That is all I care for.
Mr. CULLOM. But I do not desire that we shall adopt a land system for those 
islands until we know more about them.
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming.   That is all I want.
Mr. CULLOM. The fact is that surveys such as we have in this country are not 
applicable to the conditions over there, as the Senator knows.
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming.   That is right.
Mr. CULLOM. I have no particular concern as to who makes the examination, 
but I do object to anything beyond that being done at the present time.
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. I have no desire to do anything else, but I think the 
Senator is a little hasty, perhaps, in saying the Secretary of the Interior should 
make the entire investigation in respect of those lands, because the investigation 
includes matters relating to agriculture and forestry, which, I think, properly come 
tinder the Secretary of Agriculture.
Mr. CULLOM. So do I. What I mean to say is that, so far as concerns the 
condition of the islands as to the present surveys and the policy to be pursued with 
reference to surveys hereafter, I should be willing to let the Secretary of the 
Interior control that question and make the report.


Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. And of course when the Senator speaks of surveys he 
means the survey and disposition of public lands.
Mr. CULLOM.   Of course.
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. That is all that the amendment is intended to cover.
Mr. CULLOM. Now, let us see what the amendment is as offered.
Mr. TELLER. I suggest to the Senator from Wyoming that he should strike out 
all about agriculture and let the inquiry pertain simply to public lands and forestry. I 
do not see that there is any objection, inasmuch as the Secretary of the Interior 
has control over the forest reservations, but he might strike put agriculture and 
forestry both, if he wants, and let it be simply an inquiry. I do not think we need 
to institute two inquiries of this character just now.
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. I will say further to the Senator, by way of apology, 
that one reason why I offered the amendment was because I believed that the 
investigation in regard to the lands should be made immediately, while possibly the 
other investigation might have remained.
Mr. CULLOM.   I think that is right.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Wyoming has not yet offered 
any amendment.
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. I will offer the amendment to section 75. At the end of 
lines 17 and 18 I move to strike out the word "Agriculture"and insert the words 
"the Interior."
Mr. TELLER. I think I would strike out "agriculture, and forestry"wherever 
it occurs. In line 19 strike out the words "agriculture, and forestry,"and in line 
30 strike out "forests, agriculture."
Mr. CULLOM. "And public roads,"too. I do not gee that the Secretary of the 
Interior has anything to do with that
Mr. TELLER. Strike out, in line 20,"forests, agriculture, and public roads."
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. Then my amendment will be to strike out, in lines 17 
and 18, the word "Agriculture"and insert "the Interior;"and in line 19, to strike 
out "agriculture, and forestry,"and in lines 20, 21, and 22, to strike out the words "for-
ests, agriculture, and public roads, bearing upon the prosperity of the Territory."
Mr. TILLMAN. Before that amendment is put, I wish to suggest to the Senator 
from Wyoming that the information sought here is as to the character of the lands 
there, both the public domain and all the other, especially that left in charge of 
the Government. Now, if the Secretary of the Interior is charged with that survey 
and he undertakes to do it, they will simply give you the area, whether it is 
woods, or mountains, or valley land; whereas if left in charge of the Agricultural 
Department it is more than likely we will get some facts as regards the products that 
are grown on similar lands and we will get some facts as to the agricultural 
possibilities there.
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. I will say to the Senator, if he will allow me, that he 
may not be fully familiar with the manner in which the Interior Department 
conducts its surveys. This does not provide for any survey or anything of that sort, I 
will say to the Senator. It simply is to be an investigation. When the Secretary of the 
Interior makes public-land surveys those facts exactly are stated.
Mr. TILLMAN. You do not propose under a $15,000 appropriation to expect a survey of 
all those islands?
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming.   I do not expect any survey at all.
Mr. TILLMAN.   You want a reconnoissance, so to speak.
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming.   It is simply to gain information.
Mr. TILLMAN. Would the Secretary of the Interior give it to us better than the 
Secretary of Agriculture?
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. Certainly, because under the Secretary of the Interior it 
has been the special duty of that Department, and is now, to have supervision over all 
the public lands of the United States and over all the surveys of the United States 
except the geological and the coast surveys. That is the Department which is especially 
charged not only with the administration, but with the recommendation of all laws that 
are passed by Congress relative to the public lands.
Mr. TILLMAN. Of course, I understand that, but the question is whether this special 
work, which seems to be to obtain information in regard to the agricultural 
possibilities of that country, can be better done through the Department of the 
Interior than the Department of Agriculture.
Mr. CULLOM.   That part is to be stricken out.
MX. TILLMAN. But the provision as you presented it in the original bill provided 
that this survey or reconnoissance should be under the Department of Agriculture.
Mr. CULLOM.   That is true.
Mr. TILLMAN. And I can not see any reason why you should change it
Mr. CLARK of Wyoming.   Because the Department of Agri-

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