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that shall be straightened out, but I do not believe there is any occasion for 
taking the appointing power as to these judges out of the hands of the governor 
and putting it into the hands of the President of the United States, although I 
have every confidence, so far as the President is concerned, that we will get good 
judges if he appoints them; but we will get good judges if any governor whom 
we send there or who may be selected from the islands appoints them.
Mr. TILLMAN. Will the Senator allow me to ask him right here whether 
there is any other Territory or whether there has ever been any other Territory 
where this class of judges were appointed by the governor?
Mr. CULLOM. No, sir; I do not think there has been in our country; but in 
this country the Territories we have organized and passed enabling acts for 
have been large stretches of country with very few people in them, no settled 
community, no system of affairs, no system of laws, but simply a scattered 
population, without any government at all.
Mr. TILLMAN. Then you do not want to carry the institutions and principles of 
the Government of the United States to Hawaii, but you simply annex the islands 
for the benefit of the few Americans there?
Mr. CULLOM. I wish to say to the Senator, so far as the American 
population are concerned, that they are just as intelligent and just as loyal to the 
American flag and to the American Constitution as the Senator is or anybody 
who belongs in his State or mine.
Mr. TILLMAN. The Senator misunderstands me if he understood that I am 
criticising the citizenship of the white persons there.
Mr. CULLOM.   I know you are not.
Mr. TILLMAN. I am not aiming at that at all. I am simply trying to get at 
the true inwardness of this remarkable bill.
Mr. CULLOM.   Very well.
Mr. TILLMAN. We are brought face to face at the end of the nineteenth 
century with propositions of government that are abhorrent to every American.
Mr. CULLOM. Is it abhorrent to the Senator that the governor should appoint 
these judges?
Mr. TILLMAN. It is. I believe in the election of judges by the people, 
although my State does not do it. The legislature elects.
Mr. CULLOM. Which would you rather have-that the President or the 
governor should appoint them?
Mr. TILLMAN. I would rather have the legislature of Hawaii appoint them.
Mr. BEVERIDGE. How about the Federal judges in this country?
Mr. TILLMAN.   Elect them by the people.
Mr. CULLOM. The Senator from South Carolina is clear off on everything 
pretty much.
Mr. TILLMAN. I am a Democrat. That is all the difference between the 
Senator from Illinois and myself.
Mr. CULLOM.   Not an ordinary Democrat, either.
Mr. TILLMAN.   I hope I am not.
Mr. CULLOM. He is an extraordinary Democrat, if I may be allowed to say 
Mr. TILLMAN.   I thank you for the compliment.
Mr. CULLOM.   Are you through?
Mr. TILLMAN. I have just started. But I want yon to get through, and 
then I will take up some of these remarks.
Mr. BEVERIDGE. I should like to ask the Senator from South Carolina 
whether he seriously means to state that he wants the judges of the Supreme 
Court of the United States elected by the people instead as they are now, 
appointed by the President.
Mr. PLATT of Connecticut.   That can not be done.
Mr. TILLMAN. Why, if the people are fit to elect a President, are they not fit 
to elect a justice of the Supreme Court?
Mr. BEVERIDGE. I am asking the Senator what his views are.
Mr. TILLMAN. We are not discussing that court. We are talking about 
the circuit and district courts; at least I thought we were.
Mr. BEVERIDGE. No; the Senator interjected into the discussion and into 
the remarks of the Senator from Illinois the proposition that, in his opinion, 
according to his theory of government, the judges ought all to be elected by the 
Mr. TILLMAN.   I say so still.
Mr. BEVERIDGE. I therefore ask the Senator whether he would have the 
judges of the Supreme Court of the United States elected by the people?
Mr. TILLMAN. I ask whether, if the people of the United States are fit to 
elect a President, they are not fit to elect a judge? Are they competent to elect a 
man to appoint a judge and not able to elect the judge? You can not answer it 
Mr. CULLOM.   I think I will have to interrupt the Senators.
Mr. TILLMAN. I yield to you. With the Senator from Indiana 1 will have it 
out after a while.
Mr. CULLOM. I do not wish to be the occasion of any excitement on the part of 
my friend the Senator from South Carolina, because he is generally a pretty 
good.-natured man and I wish to keep him so. I want to be perfectly serious 
about this thing and to express my judgment simply that the best thing to do 
for the present in the adoption of a bill is to allow the status there as to the 
courts and the legislature to remain, with the modifications that the 
committee have made. We found, it is true-and we are disturbing it to that 
extent-a supreme court appointed for life or during good behavior, and we 
thought that, perhaps, for a Territorial court, was going beyond what ought to 
be allowed, and so we yielded to a nine-year term for the supreme court 
judges and a six-year term for the circuit court judges, there being three
judges of the supreme court and five judges of the circuit courts. If  it is thought 
that that is a dangerous thing to do, of course the Senate has a right to change 
it and make their appointment for a given term of years and by the President.
Now, there was something said upon the question of the elective franchise, and 
I think some inquiries were made. I have a statement here somewhere--
Mr. FORAKER.   Mr. President.
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator from Illinois yield to the 
Senator from Ohio?
Mr. CULLOM.   I do.
Mr. FORAKER. Before the Senator leaves that point, if I am not mistaken 
he was in error in one answer he gave to a Senator who propounded an inquiry 
as to whether or not it was proposed by this bill to continue in office the present 
incumbents. I do not so understand the bill.
Mr. CULLOM. If I am mistaken in that respect, how does the Senator 
construe it?
Mr. FORAKER. At the beginning of section 81 it is expressly provided that 
the supreme court shall consist of a chief justice and not less than two 
associate justices, and it is further provided, in the same section, I believe, or the 
following one--
Mr. PLATT of Connecticut.   The last part of the section.
Mr. FORAKER. It is somewhere there that they shall be appointed. It does 
not say anywhere that the present incumbents shall be continued in office.
Mr. PLATT of Connecticut.   Read the last three lines.
Mr. FORAKER.   If it does, I have overlooked it.
Mr. PLATT of Connecticut. The last three lines of that section, on page 37-
lines 13, 14, and 15.
Mr. FORAKER.   Ah, I beg pardon.
Mr. PLATT of Connecticut. I contemplate in my amendment striking that 
Mr. FORAKER.   Were the lines stricken out?
Mr. PLATT of Connecticut. My amendment contemplates striking them 
Mr. CULLOM. I had here a statement of what the vote would be in the 
election of the legislature or in any other election. I do not seem to find it. 
Somebody has evidently picked it up by mistake, but I remember that there 
were between ten and thirteen thousand voters in the Territory under this 
bill for the house of representatives and between forty-five hundred and five 
thousand for senators.
Mr. TILLMAN.   Where does the Senator get that information?
Mr. CULLOM. It was furnished me by somebody who ought to know.
Mr. TILLMAN. Well, that is a remarkable statement to come from the 
Senator in charge of the bill, that he gives us the ipse dixit of some man 
whose name he will not even mention.
Mr. CULLOM. It is not extraordinary at all. I made an inquiry of gentlemen 
here from the islands.
Mr. TILLMAN.   Lobbying this bill through?
Mr. CULLOM. Not at all. The Senator always seems to be scared for fear 
somebody is standing around trying to do some-thing he does not want done.
Mr. TILLMAN. I find the purlieus of this Capitol chock full of men who are 
always trying to get something done that is against the people.
Mr. CULLOM. Then they find the Senator and nobody else, apparently.
Mr. TILLMAN.   I said I found them.
Mr. CULLOM.   Did you go after them?
Mr. TILLMAN. No. I have seen them in the committee, where you and I have 
had some investigations.
Mr. CULLOM. Most of them were invited there by the committee.
Mr. TILLMAN. They invited themselves there, and asked the chairman to 
give them a hearing.
Mr. CULLOM. I think the Senator is entirely off on that question.
Mr. WOLCOTT.   Mr. President, I hope we can have order.
Mr. CULLOM. This is a statement prepared by a gentleman at my request, so 
that I might have as much definite information as I could as to the property 
qualifications of the people and the

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