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3801
The Clerk read as follows:
On page 53, lines 24 and 25, strike out the words "the Constitution and."
Mr. DE ARMOND.   Mr. Chairman, I do not care to detain the 
committee upon this question.   It is simply a proposition to take from 
the section that part of it which purports to extend the Constitution to 
the Hawaiian Islands, leaving it to extend the laws so far as they are 
applicable. Mr. RICHARDSON.   Mr. Chairman, I would like to have 
order. I can not hear at this distance the gentleman from Missouri. 
The CHAIRMAN.   The committee will be in order, and gentlemen 
will cease conversation and resume their seats. Mr. DE ARMOND.   
The section as it stands, Mr. Chairman, purports to extend to Hawaii 
not only the laws of the United States locally applicable, but the 
Constitution.   The section, if the amendment I propose were 
adopted, would extend to that Territory the laws of the United 
States locally applicable and leave the Constitution to take care of 
itself.   As I said, Mr. Chairman, I do not care to occupy the time of 
the House in anything like an extended argument on the proposition 
involved in the amendment.   My belief is that either the 
Constitution will be embodied in the act as statute law and carried to 
Hawaii in that way if the section remains unamended or there will be 
absolutely no effect, nothing accomplished, by the incorporation of 
those words. What argument can be made by gentlemen for the 
retention of these words, except that it will be taken as an evidence 
that in order to carry the Constitution to Hawaii, or make it 
effective there, it becomes necessary to have this Congressional 
action? That the inhabitants of these islands will have more or less of 
the protection of the Constitution, in consequence of the passage or 
failure to pass this provision, I do not believe; but that the presence 
of these words in this section will be used elsewhere and at other 
times and upon other questions to propagate what to me seems a 
dangerous heresy, 1 do not doubt.   Now, if there is a good reason why 
these words should remain, I would be very glad for some gentleman 
to state it. If it be seriously contended that in the absence of these 
words the laws of the United States will be carried to Hawaii, while 
the Constitution will have no force and effect there, I would be ex-
ceedingly glad if some gentleman would point out how and why that 
is or could be.   If it be true that the inhabitants of those islands and 
the islands themselves will be under the force and effect of the 
Constitution just the same without this legislation "extending" the 
Constitution as with it, the words which I move to strike out are 
useless, and, under existing circumstances, misleading.   Why do that 
which maybe called a "precedent," for legislation which ought not to 
be enacted, at some other time and concerning some other territory? 
Mr. KNOX.   Mr. Chairman, this is section 5.   I was unfortunate 
enough not be able to hear the remarks of the distinguished gentleman 
from Missouri.   The amendment he has offered is to page 62 of the 
bill, section 5, on lines 24 and 25, which provides: SEC. 5. That except as 
herein otherwise provided the Constitution and all the laws of the.United States 
locally applicable shall hare the same force and effect within the said Territory as 
elsewhere in the United States: Provided, That sections 1850 and 1390 of the 
Revised Statutes of the United States shall not apply to the Territory of Hawaii.
Now, the gentleman moves to strike out the words "the Con-
stitution and," upon the ground, as I understand it, of the doctrine 
which he advocates, and which so largely prevails among 
gentlemen upon the other side of the House, and to some extent 
among gentlemen upon this side of the House, that the Constitution 
goes to our island possessions by its own inherent force and without 
this provision.   Now, we have had a very liberal time allowed in 
this House for the discussion of that question, with ample 
opportunity for every gentleman entertaining views upon that subject 
to express his views.   I believe, with many others, that the 
Constitution does not go there except it goes by legislative enactment 
or by treaty.   Other gentlemen believe the other way.                                               
o     . Mr. NEVILLE.   Will the gentleman yield to a question? Mr. 
KNOX.   Oh, yes.   Mr. NEVILLE.   Who will decide what portions of 
the Constitution are locally applicable to the Hawaiian Islands, and 
under what authority will that tribunal act in so deciding? Mr. 
KNOX.   What portion of the Constitution and laws extended are 
applicable to the island will be a question for litigation in the courts.   
By this bill there is a court established with Federal jurisdiction 
alone to deal with all these questions that come up in Hawaii. Now, 
then, the point I make is this, and the only point; for I do not wish to 
precipitate a discussion upon this bill upon the Constitution, because 
if the contention of the gentleman from Missouri is right, and the 
Constitution extends by its inherent force to the islands of Hawaii, 
then no harm is done by extending it by this section.   It is simply 
declaratory. Mr. COX.   Will the gentleman yield to me for one 
moment?  Mr. KNOX.   Yes, indeed,     

Mr. COX.   I just simply want to follow the question asked. Yon 
say that there will be a court in Hawaii to establish this question.   That 
court decides how far it is applicable.   Is that a final decision, and no 
appeal lies from that? Mr. KNOX.   We establish a Federal district 
court with a jurisdiction of the circuit court, that upon constitutional 
questions appeal may be had and a writ of error may lie to the 
Supreme Court of the United States.   There is no question but that 
any constitutional question arising there will go to the United States 
court for decision. Now, then, I say again that if the contention of these 
gentlemen is right, no harm is done by this provision.   It is simply 
declaratory.   Shall we plunge the people of these islands into 
uncertainty as to what the laws are that apply to that island?   Shall 
we raise at once questions of doubtful jurisdiction, questions that 
start with litigation which will imperil every right of property, that 
will block every step of progress, because men can not act unless the 
question of the laws that apply to the territory and the conn-try in 
which they live are settled to a certainty? Mr. HITT was recognized. Mr. 
POWERS rose. The CHAIRMAN.   The gentleman from Illinois has the 
floor. Mr. HITT.   I will yield to the gentleman from Vermont. Mr. 
POWERS.   I wish to inquire whether under this bill the people of 
Hawaii are citizens of the United States. The CHAIRMAN.   The time 
of the gentleman from Massachusetts has expired. Mr. POWERS.   I 
ask that his time be extended five minutes. The CHAIRMAN.   Is 
there objection to the request of the gentleman from Vermont that the 
time of the gentleman from Massachusetts be extended five minutes? 
Mr. HITT.   The gentleman from Massachusetts does not ask for 
the time, and I ask to be recognized in my own right. Mr. KNOX.   I 
want to answer the question of the gentleman from Vermont.  The 
CHAIRMAN.   Is there objection?   [After a pause.]   The Chair 
hears none. Mr. KNOX.   They are citizens. Mr. POWERS.   
Inasmuch as you declare that the people of the islands are citizens of 
the United States, can you not obviate the objection proposed by 
the gentleman from Missouri by simply adding a further provision 
after declaring them citizens of the United States, that they shall be 
entitled to all the rights, immunities, and privileges guaranteed by 
the Constitution of the United States? Mr. KNOX.   Oh, yes; but 
there are other questions that arise besides those of citizenship.   
Those are not the only questions. Mr. POWERS.   I understand my 
friend from Missouri claims that we can not legislate the 
Constitution into Hawaii, and I very much doubt the proposition. Mr. 
KNOX.    Well, I respect the doubt of the gentleman from Vermont, 
and I say that we do not propose to raise the question. Mr. 
POWERS.   I recognize the right of Congress to declare that these 
people shall have all. the immunities and privileges of citizens of the 
United States. Mr. KNOX.   They are citizens of the United States by 
this bill, and the Constitution and laws are extended as far as they are 
applicable to these islands.   Now, one further consideration. Mr. DE 
ARMOND.   Will the gentleman from Massachusetts yield for a 
question?                                              , Mr. KNOX.   I will. Mr. DE 
ARMOND.   I wish to ask the gentleman what parts of the 
Constitution he regards as locally applicable to Hawaii and what 
parts he regards as not locally applicable? Mr. KNOX.   It is 
perfectly apparent, Mr. Chairman, that I can not answer that 
question in one hour, two hours, or three hours.   The Constitution 
and body of the law that is locally applicable to the Territory of 
Hawaii are extended to the islands by this bill. Mr. DE ARMOND.   
One question further.   Can the gentleman indicate any provision of 
the Constitution not locally applicable to Hawaii? Mr. KNOX.   The 
provision as to electing Presidential electors, as to determining the 
succession, and very many constitutional questions can be cited. Mr. 
DE ARMOND.   Let me ask another question.   Can he mention any 
provision applicable to the Territories of Arizona and New Mexico 
that is not applicable to the Territory of Hawaii? Mr. KNOX.   I 
should suppose that there were many provisions applicable to a great 
maritime republic like Hawaii that would not be applicable 'to 
Arizona or New Mexico.   For instance, the provision of Article IV of 
the Constitution, if I have the number of the article in my mind right, 
that the jurisdiction of the United States courts shall extend to all 
questions of maritime and admiralty jurisdiction.   That would not be 
claimed as applicable to an inland Territory like Arizona, but would 
be exactly applicable to the Territory of Hawaii.   \

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